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	<title>Comments on: Eroge Recession 2</title>
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	<description>where shoujo and bishoujo meet</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:48:44 +0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: bluemist</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232669</link>
		<dc:creator>bluemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232669</guid>
		<description>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/counter-strike-neo-white-memories/

@Wavehawk
This was the one I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/counter-strike-neo-white-memories/" rel="nofollow">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/counter-strike-neo-white-memories/</a></p>
<p>@Wavehawk<br />
This was the one I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Wavehawk</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232668</link>
		<dc:creator>Wavehawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232668</guid>
		<description>Bishojou games today are pretty much like FPS and fighting games back in the 90&#039;s--everyone&#039;s making them, there&#039;s really no research done in the technical department, and everyone was churning out ideas for them. And since it&#039;s an established sub-genre with lots of gamers willing to buy (literal) crap games, it took off.

The strength of a visual novel game is in two elements: characters and story. Thing is, most if not all the characters are now stereotypically cliche, and the stories of most aren&#039;t much to write home about either. Essentially, if you can&#039;t be bothered to like the characters or be interested in the story, there&#039;s no real draw.

Unfortunately, like my example of FPS and fighting games: most companies don&#039;t really see beyond &quot;package new game to sell&quot;. And like you mentioned, not many companies really take time to develop new technologies and interfaces for the genre, thus it stagnates. And hell, with the number of Bishojou Game stories nowadays making the jump to TV animation? Why bother with a game if the TV animation can tell the same story (or just show the same characters)?

I seem to recall Namco trying to use the Half-Life:Counterstrike engine to make a sort-of Visual Novel some years back. The idea might have been lame, but it sounded like there was at least some effort involved. And anyone who&#039;s played Half-Life, Halo, Metal Gear, etc. games can probably attest that being able to interact with your environment makes a story and characters more immersive than just (sad to say) point-and-click choices for conversation.

As for the good old &#039;Pinas...the less I can say about the Colonial Mentality (este, Mental Colony pala), the better...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishojou games today are pretty much like FPS and fighting games back in the 90&#039;s&#8211;everyone&#039;s making them, there&#039;s really no research done in the technical department, and everyone was churning out ideas for them. And since it&#039;s an established sub-genre with lots of gamers willing to buy (literal) crap games, it took off.</p>
<p>The strength of a visual novel game is in two elements: characters and story. Thing is, most if not all the characters are now stereotypically cliche, and the stories of most aren&#039;t much to write home about either. Essentially, if you can&#039;t be bothered to like the characters or be interested in the story, there&#039;s no real draw.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, like my example of FPS and fighting games: most companies don&#039;t really see beyond &#034;package new game to sell&#034;. And like you mentioned, not many companies really take time to develop new technologies and interfaces for the genre, thus it stagnates. And hell, with the number of Bishojou Game stories nowadays making the jump to TV animation? Why bother with a game if the TV animation can tell the same story (or just show the same characters)?</p>
<p>I seem to recall Namco trying to use the Half-Life:Counterstrike engine to make a sort-of Visual Novel some years back. The idea might have been lame, but it sounded like there was at least some effort involved. And anyone who&#039;s played Half-Life, Halo, Metal Gear, etc. games can probably attest that being able to interact with your environment makes a story and characters more immersive than just (sad to say) point-and-click choices for conversation.</p>
<p>As for the good old &#039;Pinas&#8230;the less I can say about the Colonial Mentality (este, Mental Colony pala), the better&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bluemist</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232666</link>
		<dc:creator>bluemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232666</guid>
		<description>@relentlessflame
You brought interesting thoughts to me actually. All this time I was thinking of these games exclusively in popular formats like pc and game consoles. If it&#039;s a reading experience, I didn&#039;t consider that there are mobile phone and even ebook platforms for visual novels. This is a rather unknown market for us internationally but I would imagine how big it is especially in that almost everyone has a darn phone in Japan. Lately I see Gift and other visual novels at Apple&#039;s app store. It would be interesting how big the potential is for mobile gaming and whether bishoujo game makers are already taking advantage of it. Rather than my thinking of improving the pc or console market by innovation that may be too costly as you said, I think the bigger action are in those portables.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@relentlessflame<br />
You brought interesting thoughts to me actually. All this time I was thinking of these games exclusively in popular formats like pc and game consoles. If it&#039;s a reading experience, I didn&#039;t consider that there are mobile phone and even ebook platforms for visual novels. This is a rather unknown market for us internationally but I would imagine how big it is especially in that almost everyone has a darn phone in Japan. Lately I see Gift and other visual novels at Apple&#039;s app store. It would be interesting how big the potential is for mobile gaming and whether bishoujo game makers are already taking advantage of it. Rather than my thinking of improving the pc or console market by innovation that may be too costly as you said, I think the bigger action are in those portables.</p>
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		<title>By: Koji Oe</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232665</link>
		<dc:creator>Koji Oe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 23:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232665</guid>
		<description>I first heard about Loveplus when I read about it in... Oh what was it? April&#039;s (?) issue of Dengeki G&#039;s. I&#039;ve been hyped about it since. About time Konami gets back into the renai simulation scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first heard about Loveplus when I read about it in&#8230; Oh what was it? April&#039;s (?) issue of Dengeki G&#039;s. I&#039;ve been hyped about it since. About time Konami gets back into the renai simulation scene.</p>
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		<title>By: relentlessflame</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232664</link>
		<dc:creator>relentlessflame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232664</guid>
		<description>For my part, I&#039;m going to facepalm just a little bit at the &quot;games need to evolve&quot; and &quot;we need more simulations&quot; comments.

Innovate in story telling?  Sure, absolutely.  Despite the fact that I don&#039;t think the Japanese anime/gaming industry has ever really been driven all that much by innovation (more on continuous improvement and refinement), I think there&#039;s always plenty of room for new ideas.  But stories don&#039;t become automagically better-*written* just because they employ more-advanced technology.  Fundamentally, these are books -- illustrated, narrated, semi-interactive books.  The auditory and visual aids are meant to augment and enhance the *reading experience*, not so much become a &quot;gaming experience&quot;.  Even works that integrate RPG-esque battle components tend to have a line between &quot;story&quot; and &quot;game-play&quot;.  Yes, they&#039;re all sold as games, but that&#039;s mainly because of the platform and distribution method.  I think that innovating *in* the genre would mean delivering a better reading experience; if you remove the focus on reading, it seems to me that it becomes something else entirely (not that that&#039;s necessarily a bad thing).  When you complete an AVG/NVL work, the first question should probably be more like &quot;was it a good book&quot;, not &quot;was it a good game&quot;.

(The move to HD for these works is sort of notwithstanding, though, as this allows for a more immersive experience for those with widescreen monitors.  Besides that, it will make it much easier to port to HD consoles.  So, on that point, I agree that the move is a bit overdue.)

In the end, the lament about &quot;the lack of creativity&quot; is by no means limited to this form of entertainment.  Consider anime, consider &quot;Western&quot; video games... heck, consider Hollywood!  Our entire entertainment culture right now is focused on sequels, safe bets, and progressive improvements to old formulas rather than on &quot;reinventing the wheel&quot;.  You need look no further than the E3 conference currently going on in the U.S. to see this in action -- even the &quot;big announcements&quot; are just evolutions of previous ideas.

At the end of the day, the whole industry is designed around a sort of &quot;revolving door&quot; model where new people gain and lose interest on a fairly regular and quick cycle.  So, at any given time, you will always find stuff that touches on all the major interests and demographics (yes, including Da Capo games), and most will be derivatives of things we&#039;ve seen before.  To those entering the market at that point it&#039;ll be new and exciting, but those who&#039;ve been around for a while may start growing weary and nothing will ever be &quot;the way it was before&quot;.  Those of us who choose not to head for the exit and stick around in the genre have to find a way to keep our interest up.  I suppose that&#039;d be especially hard if you derive enjoyment more from &quot;new, innovative experiences&quot; rather than &quot;comfortable, familiar experiences&quot;.  Neither of those preferences are better or worse than the other, but I tend to think that a good portion of the dedicated community in Japan must be in the second category.

So, anyway... all that and I didn&#039;t really address the catalyst of the article, which is the erosion of freedom this industry group is imposing on the creators.  Certainly, this is an opportunity to innovate, but the only way to fund that innovation will be through consolidation and by doubling-down on the formulas that do work.  It&#039;s nice to tell the industry to &quot;reinvent thyself&quot;, but at what cost, and what is the expectation of return?  As I said above, I&#039;m not totally convinced that the move to more expensive technology will result in a corresponding increase in sales for a genre that&#039;s really all about reading.  Is there really that big of a market interest in simulations, 3D eroge, and the like?  Who knows... time, as always, will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my part, I&#039;m going to facepalm just a little bit at the &#034;games need to evolve&#034; and &#034;we need more simulations&#034; comments.</p>
<p>Innovate in story telling?  Sure, absolutely.  Despite the fact that I don&#039;t think the Japanese anime/gaming industry has ever really been driven all that much by innovation (more on continuous improvement and refinement), I think there&#039;s always plenty of room for new ideas.  But stories don&#039;t become automagically better-*written* just because they employ more-advanced technology.  Fundamentally, these are books &#8212; illustrated, narrated, semi-interactive books.  The auditory and visual aids are meant to augment and enhance the *reading experience*, not so much become a &#034;gaming experience&#034;.  Even works that integrate RPG-esque battle components tend to have a line between &#034;story&#034; and &#034;game-play&#034;.  Yes, they&#039;re all sold as games, but that&#039;s mainly because of the platform and distribution method.  I think that innovating *in* the genre would mean delivering a better reading experience; if you remove the focus on reading, it seems to me that it becomes something else entirely (not that that&#039;s necessarily a bad thing).  When you complete an AVG/NVL work, the first question should probably be more like &#034;was it a good book&#034;, not &#034;was it a good game&#034;.</p>
<p>(The move to HD for these works is sort of notwithstanding, though, as this allows for a more immersive experience for those with widescreen monitors.  Besides that, it will make it much easier to port to HD consoles.  So, on that point, I agree that the move is a bit overdue.)</p>
<p>In the end, the lament about &#034;the lack of creativity&#034; is by no means limited to this form of entertainment.  Consider anime, consider &#034;Western&#034; video games&#8230; heck, consider Hollywood!  Our entire entertainment culture right now is focused on sequels, safe bets, and progressive improvements to old formulas rather than on &#034;reinventing the wheel&#034;.  You need look no further than the E3 conference currently going on in the U.S. to see this in action &#8212; even the &#034;big announcements&#034; are just evolutions of previous ideas.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the whole industry is designed around a sort of &#034;revolving door&#034; model where new people gain and lose interest on a fairly regular and quick cycle.  So, at any given time, you will always find stuff that touches on all the major interests and demographics (yes, including Da Capo games), and most will be derivatives of things we&#039;ve seen before.  To those entering the market at that point it&#039;ll be new and exciting, but those who&#039;ve been around for a while may start growing weary and nothing will ever be &#034;the way it was before&#034;.  Those of us who choose not to head for the exit and stick around in the genre have to find a way to keep our interest up.  I suppose that&#039;d be especially hard if you derive enjoyment more from &#034;new, innovative experiences&#034; rather than &#034;comfortable, familiar experiences&#034;.  Neither of those preferences are better or worse than the other, but I tend to think that a good portion of the dedicated community in Japan must be in the second category.</p>
<p>So, anyway&#8230; all that and I didn&#039;t really address the catalyst of the article, which is the erosion of freedom this industry group is imposing on the creators.  Certainly, this is an opportunity to innovate, but the only way to fund that innovation will be through consolidation and by doubling-down on the formulas that do work.  It&#039;s nice to tell the industry to &#034;reinvent thyself&#034;, but at what cost, and what is the expectation of return?  As I said above, I&#039;m not totally convinced that the move to more expensive technology will result in a corresponding increase in sales for a genre that&#039;s really all about reading.  Is there really that big of a market interest in simulations, 3D eroge, and the like?  Who knows&#8230; time, as always, will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Gawain00</title>
		<link>http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/archives/eroge-recession-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232663</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawain00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemist.animeblogger.net/?p=1201#comment-232663</guid>
		<description>I agree with you on several points.
The bishoujo game industry is in recession. The bishoujo games are currently just like insects. They are not very advanced, there are very many families and species and they evolve very slowly. Due to their variety, they are interesting, but they get boring after some time. There are too many games that look the same and there are too many clichés and tropes. Why don’t the writers think out of the box more often?
The ban of the rape simulation games was (from a social and psychological view) a pretty bad move. I believe these games are used often as a substitution for aggressive and sexual feelings.  If you can satisfy yourself with the simulation and you realize the consequences if you did it in real life, then you probably don’t do it. Well yes, suppression also works, but the suppressed emotions will burst out sooner or later. When they do then you usually commit a crime. From this perspective, loli is also acceptable as a form of substitution. People with these ‘’disorders’’ and ‘’extraordinary tastes’’ usually don’t consult a psychologist because of fear and shame. 
I also agree with Anon. Even if it is illegal, people still do it. That’s the point of laws. If nobody does something wrong, why do we need morality and laws? Just like Durkheim said. Crime is functional for society and beneficial (if it happens moderately).
I am sorry if I took an overly scientific view. I’m a science otaku.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you on several points.<br />
The bishoujo game industry is in recession. The bishoujo games are currently just like insects. They are not very advanced, there are very many families and species and they evolve very slowly. Due to their variety, they are interesting, but they get boring after some time. There are too many games that look the same and there are too many clichés and tropes. Why don’t the writers think out of the box more often?<br />
The ban of the rape simulation games was (from a social and psychological view) a pretty bad move. I believe these games are used often as a substitution for aggressive and sexual feelings.  If you can satisfy yourself with the simulation and you realize the consequences if you did it in real life, then you probably don’t do it. Well yes, suppression also works, but the suppressed emotions will burst out sooner or later. When they do then you usually commit a crime. From this perspective, loli is also acceptable as a form of substitution. People with these ‘’disorders’’ and ‘’extraordinary tastes’’ usually don’t consult a psychologist because of fear and shame.<br />
I also agree with Anon. Even if it is illegal, people still do it. That’s the point of laws. If nobody does something wrong, why do we need morality and laws? Just like Durkheim said. Crime is functional for society and beneficial (if it happens moderately).<br />
I am sorry if I took an overly scientific view. I’m a science otaku.</p>
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